Wayward Drifter

Love Loses, I can't believe it!

2011-03-15T14:08:00.000-07:00

In the following entry there will be no terms used that the average adult does not understand. Although I know and understand a few of the terms that seminary types like to throw around, they are for the most part unnecessary. While they have some place in keeping discussions short, I find that they are mostly used to try and rebuild the Temple Vail that was said to be torn in two.

Since I was a small child I have been told this basic story or narrative about whom God is and why we, the folks that reside here on planet Earth, were created.

It starts out rather simple and innocent, if you can get your mind around; There is a God that has always been. But in this realm of infinity, there was a very specific time (about five to six thousand years ago) that God decided he wanted to be in communion with a being that was made in his image, but was definitely no deity.

So what will this creature be, what does it mean to have communion or a relationship between God and this newly created human thing. I was told that love between man and God can only exist if there is freewill. If you cannot choose to love or not to love God, if it is instead somehow hardwired into you, how can you really call it love? (That always made a lot of sense to me)

So it was that God made man and woman and their freewill inevitably caused them to fall out of fellowship with God. This was done through disobedience, which we call sin.

In the next 1,000 years things went from bad to worse:

And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of the rulers saw the daughters of men that they were pretty; and they took as wives all those whom they chose ... The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted its way upon the earth. And God said to Noah, 'The end of all flesh has come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.' [Genesis 6:1-2, 11-12]

Yep, that’s everyone (except Noah and his family). If you are a fundamentalist, then you must believe that the balance of the population of the world has for the last four to five thousand years been suffering unimaginable torment. And, by the way, they are not one moment closer to being finished with that torment than when they started.

It does not make much sense for me to chronicle the next 400 years till Abram becomes Abraham or the following 2000 until the New Covenant or the last 2000 years, because the bottom line is the same. What is that bottom line? It is this:

God, whom we say is Love, created creatures for the purpose of relationship, even though he knew that the vast majority would reject him in one way or another. He also knew that He, being all good, was left with no other option but for these failures to endure nothing short of a complete and eternal separation from him (Hell) upon their death. The question of how big a majority the eternally damned are depends on the severity of your fundamentalism. While some groups believe only their micro-sect will be enjoying the bounty of Heaven, other generous groups feel as though most Christians will make the cut. Either way, the majority of humans that were created by God and for God, will be eternally tortured. That God is not a God who loves me or one that I could love. That is, most simply, why I cannot be a fundamentalist.

Well there, I said it. It is what I have known / believed for some time. If you yourself are a die-hard fundamentalist then I have no doubt just jumped to the damned side of the equation, but really, there are so many, does one more really matter?

If you are not a fundamentalist, you may be asking “Steve, have you lost Faith?” The answer is a resounding NO!! I have, however, lost faith in simplistic answers to complicated questions. I’ve lost faith in those that pretend a book full of mystery can be simplified into 5 verses (that, by the way, can be printed on a large ballpoint pen that scrolls through them as you click it). There is a God. And now that I realize that I don’t need to fake a blind acceptance of a narrative that does not point to a loving God by any reasonable definition of Love. I am more excited than ever to know Him and be known by Him.

Hello..Hello..Hello...Is there anybody out there

2010-12-28T08:28:00.000-08:00

Its been two years since I've blogged....I was curious if this is still on anyone's list. I wanted to get the answer before I wrote anything. Just hit comment so I will know.

The Draw of Politics

2008-09-01T10:55:00.000-07:00

Why Does It Matter so Much,

There is a disturbing thing happening in the open minded emergent Christian movement. I believe that, in general, the leaders are starting to hitch themselves to the Democratic wagon. I heard that Donald Miller was opening the DNC convention with prayer. After some soul-searching I realized that I truly was not disappointed because it was the DNC, its because he felt it necessary to align himself with either party.

In the last few decades religious leaders have traditionally been Republican, with the hot topic issue of abortion on the front burner. But when you apply the WWJD question to many other planks of the party, they fail miserably.

Now as young Christian leaders align themselves with the Dem's because of a perceived compassion, they may want to ask themselves if fatherless homes and generational poverty is what Jesus would want, as that has been an obvious outcome of FDR's new deal.

If we look to either party to further the kingdom I think we are looking in the wrong direction. Should we vote - probably - maybe, but if we think that this kingdom (The USA) is going to do anything to further Christs Kingdom I believe we are fooling ourselves.

Struggling Patriot

2008-06-08T11:08:00.000-07:00

Its been over a year since my last post so I doubt that anyone still looks here anymore. But Here it goes anyway.

I am a patriot -I bleed red, white, and blue. I was raised on Air Force bases across our Country. As a child growing up on the headquarters of Tactical Air Command, every day was like an air show. All I had to do was look up into the sky and there would be multiple F-15's doing cool things in tight formation. My dad was an influential scientist / developer known as the Czar of SAR (synthetic aperture radar, I could explain but then I'd have to kill you.)

I am a patriot - but for a couple years now I have been struggling with the possible conflict between my patriotism and where and how God wants to direct my life. As most of you know I am on a journey attempting to follow The Way of Christ as he reveals it to me.

Christ was apolitical and could certainly not be called a patriot. I have previously dismissed the divergence between myself and Christ in this respect, because I live in the frigin' US of A. I mean those Romans were evil, bad dudes and our country was founded by Christians right?

At my church we are talking about the Kingdom of God and this has renewed my struggle. Can I be a patriot concerned about the USA's Kingdom and at the same time be 100% sold out to God's Kingdom. There was a time when I thought they (the two kingdoms) could not be in conflict so it doesn't matter, but I have a tough time believing that anymore. It even seems to be similar to serving two masters.

As always I'm more interested in your thoughts than mine - what about civic duties? Civil obedience? the military? so many questions

Christian Leadership

2007-05-30T09:15:00.000-07:00

Who speaks for you?
Who speaks for Jesus?
Who is Leading Authentic Christianity?

Please watch the following You-Tube videos in full.

A. Bono - U2

B. Dr.Nina Gunter Nazarene General

If you choose "B", Please read the Gospels and return to quiz, Repeat as necessary.

I'd love to hear your thoughts - Steve

Chastity and Self Control

2007-05-15T04:35:00.000-07:00

Those of you who know me, understand that I should not come at this in a pedantic manor. In fact my lack of self-control hangs over my size 40" belt for all the world to see.

With my fundamentalist background, it is very hard for me to not see things in black and white. Is it sin or not. If it is not sin, it is permissible - lets do it.

There is another line of thought that is of some interest to me. If we cannot control these earthly vessels, which are certainly capable of being controlled, how is the Creator to entrust us with a heavenly body. Similarly if we cannot handle our current financial situation, how are we to be trusted with untold riches. (for more on this point see Matthew 25:14-28)

So if we are to abstain from alcohol, trans-fat, or a wild spending spree, maybe we should do it with the above paragraph in mind. Not because a Pizza, a Rum & coke, or a designer suit are sin.

As always - I'm interested in your thoughts.

Thanks for the Comments

2007-04-26T17:48:00.000-07:00

Sorry I begged

I WANT COMMENTS

2007-04-20T18:31:00.000-07:00

I spent a lot of time thinking about the 4/13 post - I must have a friend or two that has a thought or opinion!!!!

Protest Me?

2007-04-15T14:39:00.000-07:00

Just a quick thought. My daughter went to an all weekend Concert and Teaching time that was targeted at teen age Christians. About 30K of them met up in Detroit. On the way in my Daughter saw picketers outside with signs the read "We don't want your Theocracy!!"

My first thought was "How can these people picket us, when there are Muslim extremists out there who really do want a theocracy. What is wrong with America these days?" Just about as soon as I thought it, I realized - that it was the easy thought - the lazy thought - the unintellectual thought - the unimportant question.

Here's the important question: What have we been doing as Christians that would give even the most critical the idea that we want to do anything but love one another and share the amazing truth of the Way of Christ to those that we do love?

Just a thought.

Particism, Patriotism, Pacifism, and GOD

2007-04-13T09:35:00.000-07:00

I was raised in a basic right-wing middle class republican household. The kind of household where you might hear " How can anyone who calls himself a Christian vote for a person that................"

My father in law and I have been having an ongoing discussion about pacifism. He has been doing some research including spending time with a Mennonite pastor.

My final ;) thoughts, as of 12:40 on April 13th are these:

Satan doesn't care if you are a hawk or a dove as long as you confuse it with your religion. As long as you're spending time, energy, and money on rallies & volunteering, Satan doesn't care if its for the Young Republicans or Greenpeace.
He is just pleased that you have found a "cause" and one that is not showing The Way of Christ to the people with whom he plans to spend a rather unpleasant eternity.
As long as he can keep you wrapped up in being a conservative christian, a liberal christian, or even a vegetarian christian - the more time you will spend in discussion, rallies, and protests and the less time you will spend on Charity & Prayer,what Satan most despises.

I write in the above format as it seems a bit easier to sit and say what I think Satan believes. I have a little harder time pulling together the hootspa to say what God wants. But here it is.

I believe God wants us to have interests and passions while we are here on earth.He has placed passion and opinions within us. It is at the point that we confuse them with our relationship with God by using religion to justify this or that - that we move into dangerous ground that can compromise our relation to Christ.

Humbly submitted with some help from my favorite author C.S. Lewis

link

2007-03-14T05:31:00.000-07:00

I promised this to my brothers but if you haven't seen them they are worthwhile. Videos are even better if you read the paragraph below each of them first.

http://www.thechurchyouknow.com/ - sorry not hyper - just cut and paste

?? WHY ??

2007-03-13T11:01:00.000-07:00

No answers this post just questions.

I have been asking a lot of questions lately. I know that I associate with many people that would find these questions dangerous - maybe a crisis of faith. For me they are not. No matter what the answers are - I know there is a God, who loves me, and wants good for me.

WHY:

Why do we care that whether the earth is 4000 or 4 trillion years old. Why is it that so many people that know nothing about the history of the Torah and its authors and what Deuteronomistic history / or theory to believe want to say that without a doubt, the bible says the earth is 4000 and some odd years old.

Why do we squabble about what translation of the bible is best and which are wrong or even evil; but don't even research who choose what books would be included and why.

Why do we want to simplify the incredible mystery of God becoming man into a legal transaction (man has sin + God can't live with sin + Christs death = sin forgiven ; will you please work in the nursery next week)

Why is it that homosexuals are outcast's and heathens but divorcee's are an unfortunate product of our current culture (both of which are mentioned in the new testament, but only one with red letters - can you guess which one?)

Why is it that we think its important to get the religious right in power when Christ (much to the dismay of his disciples) was continuously apolitical.

This list doesn't even scratch the surface, but lets stop here and as always I'm hoping for more intellect from the comments than this drifter's keyboard.

THIN PLACES

2007-02-17T17:24:00.000-08:00

I believe that there are two "Worlds" that exists at the exact same time. One, of course, is the natural world. That is, our planet, solar system, universe, etc. The things that exist in space and time that we can see and feel. I also believe that there exists a spiritual world, intertwined but somehow separate from our natural world. In the Spiritual World, space and time are irrelevant and there is a loving God who wants us to know him and "see" him.

There are places where where the two worlds are much closer and seem less separated. These are places where the vale between the two worlds is so thin you can feel it inside your being. An author who has had very similar experiences to my own called these "thin places". I imagine they are different places for different people, but for me it has always been in Nature, what I believe to be God's beauty, his artwork. I can remember as a boy watching the sun set over a lake, while the crickets were singing, and the smell of burning wood hung in the air. I had this feeling deep inside that I did not understand. It was like immense pleasure and a subtle sadness all at the same time. I believe I was feeling God's call, a call to know him, to join him, to Love him, to see him.

Nature has always been a thin place for me. From the time I didn't understand it as a boy to times I now purposely pursue it as a man. I never suspected that I would have another type of thin place that was as real to me as nature. This week I found one. I found it on a patio table with my wife, two great friends, and a bottle of wine. No pretense - no defences - just fellowship. A fellowship so pure, so real, that once again I was given a glimpse of the Spiritual World a piece of Heaven in this natural world.

Paul - thanks for letting me write this during your sermon - I'll catch it all tomarrow!!

Jesus Meets a Gay Man

2007-01-25T07:57:00.000-08:00

I hate to cut a paste a post - but this moved my heart.

The Scandalous Christ
1 In late July, the Metro Chicago Synod heard that Jesus was attracting more first-time visitors and baptizing more adults than any other ELCA pastor in the city, 2 although in fact it was not really Jesus who had baptized them, but his irregularly-commissioned staff of unordained lay ministers. 3 Now when Jesus learned of this, he left the seminary community in Hyde Park and went back once more toward the ELCA headquarters on Higgins Road.

4 Now to get there, he had to go through an area just north of downtown called Boystown. 5 So he came to a part of Boystown called Northhalsted, not far from the plot of ground where Emperor Mayor Daley had ordained that the Chicago Cubs should play baseball. 6 Cub’s Stadium was near there, and Jesus, tired as he was from the journey on the Red Line, sat down at a sidewalk café table outside the bar called Hydrate. It was just about lunch-time, and though the rainbow flags were fluttering in the breeze and the music inside the bar was pumping, there weren’t many people around (because it’s often hot and miserable outside, at mid-day in late July, in Chicago).

7 A waiter came to the table, wearing a bright pink “His+His” t-shirt and a “Silence=Death” armband, and raised one eyebrow at the man seated at the table in front of him in the “Come Follow Me” t-shirt. Jesus said to him, “Will you give me a drink?” 8 (All the lay ministers had gone down the street to pick up Subway sandwiches for the rest of the journey.)
9 The gay man said to him, “Hey…you tell me. After all, you appear to be a straight Christian, and I’m a gay man. Let’s face it - we don’t get many religious folks in Boystown, let alone places like this. And I’m not only a gay man, but I’m a Buddhist gay man. So where does a guy like you get off asking someone like me for a drink?” (For Christians do not associate with gays, nor with Buddhist if they can help it.)
10 Jesus answered him, “If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.”
11 “Hey, mister,” the gay man said, “I’m the waiter here. I don’t see you with an order pad or a serving tray, and it’s tough for customers to even get close to our fountain-drink station, let alone our bar. So how are you going to get anything for me to drink, let alone ‘living water’? Where can you get this living water? 12 Are you somehow greater than the folks who own this place, who let us drink have free water and soda (and snitch the occasional mixed drink) whenever we want?”
13 Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks your water, or your soda, or your beer will get thirsty again, 14 but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

15 The gay man said to him, “Yeah? Mister…you know what, I have no idea who you really are, or even what the heck you’re talking about. But you’re the first Christian man in 20 years that hasn’t spit on me, or called me ‘an abomination’ to my face. Somehow, I think I want some of what you’re offering. Give me some of this water you keep talking about, so I won’t get thirsty and have to keep coming here to get something to drink.”

16 Jesus told the man, “OK - just call your wife and come back here, and we’ll talk.”
17 “Who are you kidding?” the gay man said. “Don’t you know where you are? You’re in Boystown, for cryin’ out loud. I don’t have a wife, or a girlfriend. Heck, right now I don’t even have a boyfriend,” he replied.
Jesus said to her, “You’re right when you say you have no boyfriend. The fact is, you’ve had five boyfriends, and the guy you’re living with now isn’t even your boyfriend. He’s just a guy you picked up in the club - some guy who doesn’t even know your real last name.”

19 Whoa, buddy,” the gay man said, “that’s pretty intense! How’d you know that about me?” Jesus was silent. “OK…I get it. Maybe you’re one of those folks who can see right through people - maybe one of those guys with ’second sight.’ Maybe you’re one of those folks who ‘have the Spirit,’ like those televangelists say. 20 I don’t know anything about that. My family - my people (the ones who are observant, anyway) - think that you have to meditate on the Buddha to get that kind of power. The rest of the people I know don’t even bother with that spiritual mumbo-jumbo…they just think you have to work out a lot, look good, live fast, die hard and leave a good-looking corpse. And all the Christians I’ve met think that I have to pray their way, and start living life their way, or I’m ‘going to hell.’ Either way, my day-to-day life is so empty, I’m not convinced that I’m not already in hell. What’s a guy supposed to believe?”

21 Jesus said, “Believe me, my friend, a time is coming when you won’t worship God under the Buddha tree, or in the gym, or in the club, or in a church sanctuary. 22 You and your friends worship what you think you know, but do not know. Christians worship what they do know, for salvation is promised in Scripture. 23 Yet a time is coming - and has now come - when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”
25 The gay man said, “I know that the church folks say that their Savior is coming. Maybe when he finally gets here, he will explain everything to us.”
26 Then Jesus declared, “Then wait no longer. I’m the one they’re waiting for.”
The Irregularly-Commissioned Lay Ministers Rejoin Jesus
27 Just then the lay ministers returned and were more than a little surprised to find Jesus apparently talking with a gay man - one who appeared to be Asian in origin, to boot. But no one asked, “What do you want?” or “Why are you talking with him?”

28 Then, leaving his tray and his order pad behind at the table, the gay man went back to the bar, and even next door to the gym and to the other clubs, and said to the people, 29 “You gotta come and see this… come see a guy who told me everything I ever did, and didn’t run away or act disgusted. Could this possibly be ‘the Christ’ all those religious folks keep talking about?” 30 People came out of the gym, and out of the bars and clubs, and made their way toward him.
31 Meanwhile the lay ministers (the ones who considered themselves Jesus’ disciples) kept saying, “Hey, padré, you may walk on water, but come on - even Michael Jordan’s gotta eat something.” 32 But Jesus said to them, “I have a source of energy that you know nothing about.”

33 Then his disciples said to each other, “Did someone slip him some Mrs. Field’s cookies while we weren’t looking?”….Many Gays and Lesbians Believe
39 Many of the gays and lesbians who gathered from all around Boystown believed in Jesus because of what the waiter said: “You gotta come and see this… come see a guy who told me everything I ever did, and didn’t run away or act disgusted.” 40 So when the people of that area - gay men, lesbians, bisexuals (even people in civil unions from Vermont and Episcopalians visiting from New Hampshire) came to him, they urged Jesus to stay with them. So rather than continuing the ride out to Higgins Road, the irregularly consecrated lay ministers found some rooms at a nearby bed-&-breakfast, and he stayed in Boystown - amidst the people with whom most Christians would not associate - for two days. 41 And because of what Jesus spoke to the men and women there, many more became believers.
42 The people who heard Jesus said to the gay man who first encountered him, “We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world.”

**This article was first located on http://ragarambler.blogspot.com/2005/02/just-how-shocking-is- gospel.html and was discussed on the ooze here.

On The Rebound

2007-01-19T08:43:00.000-08:00

In 1789 the french monarchy had put the country into financial ruin, depleted the treasury and was looking for a way to collect more taxes. After striking out with the nobles and clergy (who were exempt from taxation) King Louis XVI, made a bit of a mistake. In a final act of desperation, Louis XVI decided to convene the Estates-General, an ancient assembly consisting of three different classes that each represented a portion of the French population. One of the three classes were the commoners. While no answers came from the Estates-General it did give the commoners the confidence to revolt. You know the story; the Bastille was stormed, Louis lost his head, etc. etc. What happened next, of course, is the most interesting part of the story. The revolutionaries, were so focused on the "sins of the past" and so paranoid about the present, without a clear vision of the future; that they became much worse than the government that they overthrew. 15,000 people lost their heads to the guillotine in one year during this reign of terror.

Why the history lesson. Simple. Because many of my brothers have stormed the Bastille of legalistic holiness or fundamental Calvinism. The natural human reaction is for us to now rebound to another extreme that could be just as harmful and ungodly as the former. I want us to somehow skip the cycle and move directly into the life that God wants for us.

Fellow rebels from Wesleyan Holiness abuses - don't forget that Christ reminds us that if we love him we will keep his commands.

Rebels from fundamental Calvinist abuses - well you know from what you have rebounded too far.

All this is easier said than done - but its a part of my journey - Thanks for joining me.

Balance

2007-01-12T12:12:00.000-08:00

I went to a Catholic Mass last year and to a certain extent it changed my life. The beauty of the Church set the tone of awe and reverence. Seeing Christ on the cross immediately filled me with emotion and a deep sense of gratefulness for his sacrifice.

I was watching ecumenical TV last night and the Priest was talking about the dangers of consumerism attached to many Contemporary Churches - The danger of thinking "the Pastor / Priest was a bit dry today" or " Man I just didn't get anything out of that today" - when what we need to be doing is consecrating ourselves to God and remembering what he has done to pay the price for our sins.

At the same time that Catholic culture has produced many that do not understand how to dig into the word of God on their own and have a limited knowledge of the incredible treasures that reside in God's Word.

Please understand, to discuss any contrast you need to make generalizations and I don't mean to paint all Catholics or all Protestants in any certain light. Certainly that could have the exact opposite effect of what I am attempting to discuss.

As I strive to figure out what I want in "Church" I know that I want BALANCE. Sometimes I want to see Christ on the Cross to remember what he did for me. I want to humbly come before a God that sacrificed all to be in a relationship with me. Sometimes I'll want to see it empty to celebrate his resurrection and omnipresence. I will want a new revelation or "take" on a scripture that I have known since I was a child.

I guess I want a lot but I think God wants a lot for us - and we are not even scratching the surface.

B 4 Somthin'

2007-01-06T05:49:00.000-08:00

Considering my last post, you may think that I spend some time and effort rallying against the institutional church, well I don't.

Two reasons really. The most obvious is that to a certain degree, they work. With all their flaws, God has used and continues to use churches to occasionally change the eternal destiny of a soul.

The second reason is much more interesting (to me anyway) and I'm sure its just because I believe in it so strongly. That is, great men (people) - people of substance, are for something rarely are they just against something.

I would, for example, never spend an afternoon picketing an abortion clinic, but I would spend a weekend volunteering at Lifeline (an abortion alternative).

If we look to Christ as our example, I think the idea holds up. Three years of; providing the wine, healing the sick, saving the condemned adulterer, feeding the masses and one moment of tearing down the corrupt market that dishonored his fathers house.

So what am I for - how should I be worshipping and serving God. That is my question - my struggle - my journey. I have a small group of brothers on the same journey. I hope to record some of the answers our Lord gives us on this sparse little blog.

May the Lord bless and lead our Adventure.

Church

2006-11-16T13:53:00.000-08:00

NEW - See comments by Jim - Good Stuff!!

"Men & Boys go to church and dream of fishing, I go to the river and think about God"-unknown

I hate institutions, with their rules & rulers - politics & politicians . Most churches are institutions.

About ten years ago my wife and I were done with church. We loved God as much as ever, maybe more, but who were these people we were hanging out with several days of the week. Negative, Judgemental, Uber-conservative, Non-intellectual folks for the most part. People that we would never choose to hang out with under normal circumstances.

So we decided to start our own home church. The first week we invited everyone on our block. I was going to bring "a message" and man was I nervous. We had one girl show up. A few more girls started but we were striking out with the men. I turned it over to my wife and it became a women's Bible Study.

About the same time an old friend connected with us and told us he was starting a new church. It was going to be unlike anything we have ever seen at church - and it was.
It was fresh - there were no politics - people that didn't go to church were coming - people were meeting God and lives were changed.

It took about seven years to become an Institution. Now at 10 years old its just another church with the same politics ,infighting, and on and on. I still go there, but it is much like any other duty in life. It is no longer an instrument that brings me closer to God.

How can we "Do Church" in a way that it stays real - organic - pure - all about the love of God. Is there any way humans can meet together without being so human.

This is what I crave, this is what I need. I don't know how to do it! Do you? - Post your thoughts.

In The Beginning

2006-11-13T10:01:00.000-08:00

I was told last week that the reason I have so much trouble with some things in this new information based world is that I am a digital immigrant not a digital native (i.e. if you can never remember life without computers and the www.)

So I decided to jump In and try to fully embrace the new world and what better way than having one's own blog. This is not so much intimidating on a technical level, but actually more of a literary level. Do I have anything to say that is interesting? I have no doubt that I am capable of commenting intelligently on others thoughts. But original thought is a bit more intimidating.

I hope something will get posted here that is worth your time to read it, although chances are the worthwhile stuff may come in the responses to the blather that I will post.